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Topic: So my ZA Pro Firewall expires in about a month!  (Read 8030 times)
ratchet
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« on: October 14, 2006, 04:47:47 AM »
I'm thinking about going with one of the free Firewalls like Comodo.  What do you use, recommend?  Thank You!
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ISPgeek
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2006, 10:15:27 AM »
Quote from: ratchet on October 14, 2006, 04:47:47 AM
I'm thinking about going with one of the free Firewalls like Comodo.  What do you use, recommend?  Thank You!

Software based firewalls are pretty much useless and terrible resource hogs.  If you have a good router then you really need nothing more than anti-virus unless you like to run your router with all ports open (but why would you do that?).  The next and preferred method is a hardware based firewall (most routers serve as at least a minimum version of this).  There are several that are more than adequate at a reasonable price.  By going this route you free up your system resources for the important things (like gaming) and you prevent your system from the ever so common FBCS (Firewall Beggar Crash Syndrome)...the thing that happens when Norton and Mcafee software start to beg for money and then msyteriously crash, blocking you from all internet traffic, subsequently killing your ability to remove the software, doomed to have to call the peckers and beg for help in removal only to be told by the loser company that in order for them to help you, you will have to renew your subscription and then finally after having paid them in desperation them telling you that your going to have to do a full system restore to fix the problem.....

So what ya gonna do?
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ISPgeek
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2006, 10:36:04 AM »
Quote from: netmasta on October 14, 2006, 10:26:08 AM
Hardware firewalls are all good and all, but they only block inbound attacks. They can't block outgoing stuff, like spyware or autoupdaters. Also software firewalls are more customizable. As for being resource hogs, I have Zonealarm and it uses ~22MB of ram and not much CPU usage at all.

Anti-virus on the other hand are terrible resource hogs, which is why I don't use any. I do however watch where I click and use adware removers.

Spyware prevention starts with a good anti-virus and common sense internet piloting to begin with.  Provided they have the above, the average user should have no fears with a hardware firewall and certainly much less trouble.  Most IT managers and certainly their ISP equiv's will agree that there are NO good software firewall products and the latest non-commercial hardware based units offer excellent protection and over the long term are a far better investment than the software alternatives.
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ISPgeek
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2006, 10:40:13 AM »
It should be noted that ZoneAlarm is also one of the offenders of the ISP most hated list.  ISP's field thousands of calls per month from people who's commerical software firewall/av package has mysteriously died right about the time it starts begging to be renewed.  In most of the cases the subscriber is sent to the software maker only to be told that they have to have reform or restore their system (but only told this after they pay the renewal of course....)
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ISPgeek
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2006, 10:44:22 AM »
Quote from: netmasta on October 14, 2006, 10:38:16 AM
Well I don't know about that. Two of the biggest ISP's, Comcast and AOL both offer software firewalls free for their members.

AOL firewall could hardly be called a firewall and for most who WERE on AOL broadband the software was useless anyway.  AOL tunnels all traffic via VPN to their network...there is no way in...and no way out...unless it goes through AOL's pipe.  The exception being those who are on AOL BYOP (bring your own provider).  Comcast, Cox and Timewarner all offer free firewall software as a marketing ploy...bottom line...you talk with their support staff and they will tell you verbatim what I have posted previously.  Sales doesn't always consult Technical before offering things...we wish they did...but they don't.

It should be noted that AOL is no longer an ISP and that virus (oops I mean software) they use along with horrible customer support is the primary cause of it.  AOL can blame it on anything they want....new company direction, change of business model, change of client...whatever...but it boils down to one thing....people were really tired of a tethered internet, obsolete software, poor support and a renewal or retention department that rivaled the best (or most aggressive) of collection agencies.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2006, 10:53:49 AM by ISPgeek » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2006, 11:01:23 AM »
Quote from: netmasta on October 14, 2006, 10:46:36 AM
I find that hard to believe. Zonealarm has won many editors choice/best buy awards from mags and web sites. They don't mysteriously die, if you don't renew then they stop working on purpose.

The fact that a product in the computer industry won acclaims from numerous editors of mags and websites is laughable.  The very same so called "respected" entities that you make ref to are the very same who profit from the tons of advertising dollars put into each of their respective business from the very same companies.  Hardly a way to get a negative report from these people...but an awesome way to get glowing reviews....been a problem in our industry for years and people just don't get it....there are NO impartial reviews in any mag or website unless the site has NO advertising from the companies or related shell companies.

As for your other rebuttal....you missed my point...I didn't say they just stopped working...I stated they would mysteriously FAIL.  Blocking all internet traffic AND mysteriously corrupting the removal tools provided so the only alternative the subscriber has is to call the maker, to be told they have to renew to get help and then after forking over a credit card only to be told they need to do a system restore.  NO product should fail at the end of a subsription preventing the user from normal operation outside of the makers software.  To hold them hostage like this is outrageous and unfortunately a sad fact of life that many of our subscribers deal with on a weekly basis.  What is really outrageous is that the very same companies who give the glowing reviews NEVER cover these issues and force the makers to fix the problems.
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2006, 11:22:00 AM »
oops....double post
« Last Edit: October 14, 2006, 11:30:48 AM by ISPgeek » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2006, 11:25:17 AM »
Quote from: netmasta on October 14, 2006, 11:15:29 AM
Yo are not listening. They do not fail. They stop working because if you want to continue to use the software you must renew the subscription. There is no mystery. A lot of users don't have any idea on how to fix the problem. They don't relise that if you remove the software, your computer WILL work again.

NO.....you are not listening.....YOU CAN'T remove the software.  The removal tool fails during the removal process thus leaving you with a half installed and totally internet blocked pc and no way to remove the software.  Now this may not have happened to you....but it happens to many thousands of people per month...the very same way I have described.  We deal with it EVERY single day...many times a day...and this is only one ISP I am talking about.  Now multiply this out by the countless millions of users and countless ISP's just by using same basic math and you are talking about a huge problem.....
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2006, 12:16:32 PM »
All arguing aside...the poster asked for alternatives....I gave him technically and financially the best alternatives.  Making a one time investment in one of the latest commericially available hardware firewall appliances (for residential use) along with a good FREE antivirus package that knows how to behave itself will not only give great protection and performance but over a period of two years more than pay for itself esp. if he has more than one computer on his network.  No solution gives a user the right go willynilly across the internet madly installing this, that or the other thing but overall it is the most trouble free solution and certainly the most cost effective one.
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« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2006, 12:24:32 PM »
We don't support AOL users...they get sent to AOHell where they belong.  Our users for the most part are individuals (mom & pop, professionals and techies alike) all who fall victim to the same commercial software hype and software failures.  Just because everyone says you have to have xyz package doesn't make it the correct decision.   It's very frustrating because we typically spend 10 times longer with these people than the next at great cost to our company (in many ways). It's not uncommon to spend an hour or more BEFORE we send them to the maker trying to resolve the problem (in case you didnt know...uninstalling can take a very long time even when it does work).  Sometimes we get lucky....most of the time we do not....and you know...funny thing that 97% of them all say...."THE DAMN SOFTWARE JUST STARTED BEGGING FOR MONEY".  Now after you see the same thing yourself thousands of times over a few years you begin to smell a huge festering mongpuke infested RAT and funny how it has the name Symantec, Mcaffee and others...tatooed right on it's forehead.


[/quote]
« Last Edit: October 14, 2006, 12:30:51 PM by ISPgeek » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2006, 12:51:15 PM »
Quote from: netmasta on October 14, 2006, 11:32:27 AM
I don't know what firewall you are talking about, but that does not happen in all firewall software. It sounds like your dealing with those "millions" of dumba** AOL users. The "huge problem" is simple to stop. Just ignore all stupid idiotic AOHELL user. They are the cause of most of these problems.

I think I was quite specific who the biggest offenders were...if you go back and reread my posts you will see...
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CtBruda
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« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2006, 04:00:09 PM »
I've been using Outpost pro for a few years, and wouldn't give it up.  Ram usage is average, and cpu is low.  Had problems with zone alarm in the past, but currently have the free version running fine on one laptop.  Also tried Sygate, but found the trial version buggy.

I have seen first hand what you're talking about, ISP.  I wouldn't consider using products from either Symantec or Mcafee.
Offering A/V & firewall products to subscribers may be a marketing ploy, but it does save quite a bit of service calls.  (And probably causes a few, too.)
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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2006, 05:16:38 PM »
Quote from: CtBruda on October 14, 2006, 04:00:09 PM
I've been using Outpost pro for a few years, and wouldn't give it up.  Ram usage is average, and cpu is low.  Had problems with zone alarm in the past, but currently have the free version running fine on one laptop.  Also tried Sygate, but found the trial version buggy.

I have seen first hand what you're talking about, ISP.  I wouldn't consider using products from either Symantec or Mcafee.
Offering A/V & firewall products to subscribers may be a marketing ploy, but it does save quite a bit of service calls.  (And probably causes a few, too.)


To some degree the software offering does help....but at least its free to the customer and if something goes wrong we can help them ourselves and if we have to tell a sub to restore (we can send a tech out for free to help them) and since the software never expires so long as you are a customer...the little "bug" that always seems to cause the software to fail at renewal time is a non-issue...we certainly aren't going to demand that the sub pays us before we help them.  Please note that I put "" around bug....quite frankly I don't think for a second that it's a bug if you know what I mean....

As for sygate....their earlier versions were fairly good....but things have changed alot with them with the current versions. 

And the more these different all in one packages get their hooks into windows the worse it gets....that's why I maintain a good standalone free AV, router and sep hardware FW appliance is a great protection combo with little hassle and cost effectiveness.  Not to mention both your hardware devices above (if you get the good ones) allow for remote monitoring and processing of realtime logs with stuff like wallwatcher that makes life very easy come time to trace who, what, when, where and why.  <<<---btw you have to be real careful about new routers tho....appears that many mfrs are leaving out the syslog access or remote logging...opting for really lame built in logging which does you no good....a very bad trend btw.....check the specs before you buy.
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tommie gorman
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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2006, 10:26:05 PM »
Personally spending $$ does not make it cost effective.

It is done for free just as well. I am sorry if you think your way is the only way to go ISPgeek. But you should definately be a little more open minded than that.

For PC use it works just fine the other way. (free)

Now for networks it might be different.
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« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2006, 11:17:12 PM »
Quote from: tommie gorman on October 14, 2006, 10:26:05 PM
Personally spending $$ does not make it cost effective.

It is done for free just as well. I am sorry if you think your way is the only way to go ISPgeek. But you should definately be a little more open minded than that.

For PC use it works just fine the other way. (free)

Now for networks it might be different.

Tommie don't get me wrong...I'm all about free...free is good....free is good....free is good....BUT

When it comes to my data, my personal information, my credit (which whether we like it not defines how our lives will be or not be) and related material is very important to me and I just have little or no faith in freeware as a TOTAL solution (I have even less faith in commercial apps).  You notice I still plugged the free AV software even with a hardware solution.  A smart use of hardware and software solutions together is the ideal protection scheme.  Yes it means you may have to make a small investment ONE time...BUT....is your credit history and identity worth that small investment....hell yes it is and having been an identity theft victim once....you don't know how valuable it is until it's destroyed because some kiddie found out a way to get around a software firewall and had his way with you and it happens alot.  Hardware based behind a router and with some software to go with...will keep the kiddies and even the pros at bay long enough to be detected and dealt with....
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