Why do people hate Windows Vista? Has Apple brainwashed America?
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Topic: Why do people hate Windows Vista? Has Apple brainwashed America?  (Read 3462 times)
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« on: April 18, 2008, 01:45:33 AM »

Why does everyone talk so much S#!t about Vista?  I think that Apple has brainwashed America... read on and you'll understand what I mean.

I f**kin looooove Vista.  I've also had no problems with Vista.  As long as you have a good computer Vista works great.  Sure, if you're trying to run it on your Celeron 1.2GHz with 512MB of RAM you're not going to be happy but as long as you install it on a decent machine you're good.  I've used it personally on three of my machines and have used the 32 bit and 64 bit versions -- and have had very little problems... problems I'm sure would have been worse had I been using Windows XP. 

Not only have I loved Vista since day one... of course AFTER the beta (I do admit that the beta sucked, BIG TIME, bug city.  My sound card wouldn't even work.. but once the full release came out it was fine).  But it also make my installs on a couple of my machine much easier because I don't have to deal with the third party RAID drivers.  Something that I've always thought was retarded in windows XP... I mean why the hell do you have to install the raid drivers from a floppy drive?  Is it 1992 or something? (I was just thinking how funny it would be to see the windows XP install on floppy disks, you open a U-Haul box to find 450 3.5" floppys.. haha).  It was just annoying, especially on a machine that has no floppy drive.  They should have at least given an option for CD-ROM with a floppy default or something.  But with Vista I haven't had to deal with that at all because all my RAID and SATA drivers are included,

All and all.. I love Vista, I have no problems with it and I seriously think that the friggen Apple commercials have brain washed everyone into thinking there's all these problems with Vista.  I think that after seeing the commercials so much it ends up making people think that they've heard bad stuff about Vista when infact they only heard it from a commercial... then they tell a friend "I've heard so much bad stuff about Vista.. don't upgrade yet..." -- then that turns into "Oh, my friend told me that Vista has nothing but problems... don't get it yet..." -- then that turns into  "My friend had Vista and they said it has nothing but problems, a total nightmare... don't get it!" -- and in truth none of those people had first hand experience with it... the source was most likely an Apple commercial that ended up starting a rumor!  You all have to agree with me!  -- Touché Apple... Touché!

If you haven't upgraded to Vista because of what you've heard...... don't listen to them!  Check to make sure that your machine meets the system requirements and if it does give it a try... I promise that you'll be very pleased.  For your convenience I've posted the requirements below.

System Requirements

Windows Vista recommended system requirements


Home BasicHome Premium / Business / Ultimate
  • 1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor

  • 512 MB of system memory

  • 20 GB hard drive with at least 15 GB of available space

  • Support for DirectX 9 graphics and 32 MB of graphics memory

  • DVD-ROM drive

  • Audio Output

  • Internet access (fees may apply)

Additional Requirements

Actual requirements and product functionality may vary based on your system configuration. Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor can help you determine which features and edition of Windows Vista will run on your computer.

While all editions of Windows Vista can support multiple core CPUs, only Windows Vista Business, Ultimate, and Enterprise can support dual processors.

  • 1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor

  • 1 GB of system memory

  • 40 GB hard drive with at least 15 GB of available space

  • Support for DirectX 9 graphics with:

    • WDDM Driver

    • 128 MB of graphics memory (minimum)

    • Pixel Shader 2.0 in hardware

    • 32 bits per pixel

  • DVD-ROM drive

  • Audio Output

  • Internet access (fees may apply)

Additional Requirements

Actual requirements and product functionality may vary based on your system configuration. Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor can help you determine which features and edition of Windows Vista will run on your computer.

While all editions of Windows Vista can support multiple core CPUs, only Windows Vista Business, Ultimate, and Enterprise can support dual processors.

Home Premium / Ultimate

TV tuner card required for TV functionality (compatible remote control optional).

Home Premium / Business / Ultimate

Windows Tablet and Touch Technology requires a Tablet PC or a touch screen.

Ultimate

Windows BitLocker Drive Encryption requires a USB Flash Drive and a system with a TPM 1.2 chip.

Windows Vista minimum supported system requirements


Home Basic / Home Premium / Business / Ultimate
  • 800 MHz processor and 512 MB of system memory

  • 20 GB hard drive with at least 15 GB of available space

  • Support for Super VGA graphics

  • CD-ROM drive


edit:spelling Smile
« Last Edit: April 19, 2008, 12:07:00 PM by tdawnaz » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2008, 03:04:18 AM »

Why do people hate Windows Vista?
cost !!!!!,  Basic = $360 USD
Premium $400 USD  in the UK , Apart from that I am happy enough with Xp, as I only use my computer for basic tasks , I was happy enough with Win M.E. ,  a big improvement from Win 3.1 that I had been running  back in 99 Laughing
I think Vista's downfall was the widspread use of the Beta edition , a lot of negative opinions got formed then , and they are hard to shake off , it's the old story , one happy customer spreads it  around 10 friends , one unhappy customer spreads the word forever ,








 
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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2008, 03:30:01 AM »

I dont hate vista.. im just havin issues with it =( lotsa issues..
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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2008, 05:01:29 AM »

I also have like Vista alot.  There are a few things that to me should not have been moved, "Add Remove Programs" for one.  Those that hat Vista so much as mentioned either have not tried it yeat or have installed a pirated copy onto a mchine that barely ran XP.  Admittedlly I used a pirated copy of Vista Ultimate a few months before getting a new PC with Vista Home Premium.  I no longer use the pirated copy.  In the work I do I have only had a few minor problems with Visa.  We have a couple pieces of software that barely worked with XP.  Naturally they were finicky or did not work at all.  One I found works perfectly in safe mode.  Compatibility mode did not help either.  My only other complaint is that it seems to take a long time to install a printer on "Standard TCP/IP".  Other than those few problems which seems to be evident in every release of windows I must say I like Vista.

As for MACS, people just don't know.  Yes MACS are more reliable compared to windows.  The reason for this is that windows/Microsoft has the target on thier backs.  People do not create viruses targeted at MAC computers.  They still get viruses though.  I have witnessed it.  I have seen both the old and the new MACS get viruses.  Afterall it is still a computer.  They still crash.  I have seen it.  In talking with people that have to use MAC and PC in the everyday world thay tell me that MAC can be just as troublesome as a PC.  PC is easier to fix because more people know about PC and parts are cheaper.

Admittedly I would not mind owning a MAC but I would also have "Parallel"(sp?) installed so that I could run XP/Vista at the same time.  Mainly becasue for my job there is no software written by the manufacture to do all of my job.

In closing I must also say that some of the biggest complainers also did not like Win98 or XP when it came out either.  THey wanted the old system.  If upgrading to Vista make sure you have a computer that will run it or buy a new PC.  Preferablly buy a new PC, less problems.  The components are made for it.
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« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2008, 05:34:19 AM »

I don't like the HD space even a fresh install of Vista requires I don't care if I have plenty of space it's my space not Microsofts'.On my hd this is around 11GB for Vista.
Next I don't like having to reactivat Vista just because I do something Vista doesn't like.For example when I did a system wide TAKEOWN & icacls /grant .
Heres a long reason.
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html#cpu
Quote
Unnecessary CPU Resource Consumption
“Since [encryption] uses CPU cycles, an OEM may have to bump the speed grade on the CPU to maintain equivalent multimedia performance. This cost is passed on to purchasers of multimedia PCs” — ATI.
In order to prevent tampering with in-system communications, all communication flows have to be encrypted and/or authenticated. For example content sent to video devices has to be encrypted with AES-128. This requirement for cryptography extends beyond basic content encryption to encompass not just data flowing over various buses but also command and control data flowing between software components. For example communications between user-mode and kernel-mode components are authenticated with OMAC message authentication-code tags, at considerable cost to both ends of the connection. The initial crypto handshake is:

  driver -> application: cert + nonce
  application -> driver: RSA-OAEP-SHA512( nonce || key || seqNo1 || seqNo2 )
In this step the driver supplies its certificate to the calling application via DxgkDdiOPMGetCertificate() and a 128-bit nonce via DxgkDdiOPMGetRandomNumber(). This is either a COPP or an OPM certificate, with COPP being the older Windows XP content protection and OPM being the newer Windows Vista one. There's also a third type of fleur-de-lis certificate that the driver uses if it has a UAB (User-Accessible Bus). The certificates contain a 2048-bit RSA key which is used to encrypt a 40-byte payload containing the nonce provided by the driver, a 128-bit session key, and two 32-bit initial sequence numbers (they start at random values), the first number is for status messages via DxgkDdiOPMGetInformation() and the second for command messages via DxgkDdiOPMConfigureProtectedOutput().

Once the keys are set up, each function call is:

  in = OMAC( nonce || seqNo || data )
  out = OMAC( nonce || seqNo || data )
(I've used conventional bits-on-the-wire notation for this, the values are actually fields in a structure so for example the sequence number is provided in the ulSequenceNumber member). This is very similar to the protocol used in SSL or SSH (in practice some steps like cipher suite negotiation are omitted, since there's a hardcoded set of ciphers used). Finding SSL being run inside a PC from one software module to another is just weird.

Needless to say, this extremely CPU-intensive mechanism is a very painful way to provide protection for content, and this fact has been known for many years. Twenty years ago, in their work on the ABYSS security module, IBM researchers concluded that the use of encrypted buses as a protection mechanism was impractical.

In order to prevent active attacks, device drivers are required to poll the underlying hardware every 30ms for digital outputs and every 150 ms for analog ones to ensure that everything appears kosher. This means that even with nothing else happening in the system, a mass of assorted drivers has to wake up thirty times a second just to ensure that… nothing continues to happen (commenting on this mechanism, Leo Laporte in his Security Now podcast with Steve Gibson calls Vista “an operating system that is insanely paranoid”). In addition to this polling, further device-specific polling is also done, for example Vista polls video devices on each video frame displayed in order to check that all of the grenade pins (tilt bits) are still as they should be. We already have multiple reports from Vista reviewers of playback problems with video and audio content, with video frames dropped and audio stuttering even on high-end systems [Note I]. Time will tell whether this problem is due to immature drivers or has been caused by the overhead imposed by Vista's content protection mechanisms interfering with playback.

An indication of the level of complexity added to the software can be seen by looking at a block diagram of Vista's Media Interoperability Gateway (MIG). Of the eleven components that make up the MIG, only two (the audio and video decoders) are actually used to render content. The remaining nine are used to apply content-protection measures.

Even more radical approaches to content protection can be found in Microsoft research papers, which indicate areas that Microsoft are looking at for future work. For example the ASPLOS X paper Enabling Trusted Software Integrity proposes a system whereby content-playback mechanisms are protected by adding encrypted constraints into each basic instruction block that prevent the code from acting in anything other than an extremely constrained way. This goes beyond simple code signing in that each basic code block contains a cryptographic hash that special hardware (around 20K gates on a simple RISC CPU, but far more for a more complex x86 one) added to the processor's instruction unit recalculates on the fly for each basic block of code before it's executed to ensure that nothing other than the originally authorised instruction flow is executed. The content-playback software is node-locked to a CPU on install, a special process that involves the processor running in single-user mode with virtual memory, context switches, and all interrupts disabled (this special operation mode is only required for the initial install step, not during normal playback). With various optimisations applied, typical content-processing operations like MPEG and JPEG encode or decode take a 10-20% performance hit.

On-board graphics create an additional problem because blocks of precious content will end up stored in system memory, from where they could be paged out to disk. In order to avoid this, Vista tags such pages with a special protection bit indicating that they need to be encrypted before being paged out and decrypted again after being paged in. Vista doesn't provide any other pagefile encryption, and will quite happily page banking PINs, credit card details, private, personal data, and other sensitive information, in plaintext. The content-protection requirements make it fairly clear that in Microsoft's eyes a frame of premium content is worth more than (say) a user's medical records or their banking PIN [Note J].

In fact, Microsoft is imposing a higher standard of security for premium content than what's been required in the past for any known secure computing initiative proposed for protecting data classified at TOP SECRET or TS/SCI levels (the closest that anything came to what's required in Vista was the LOCK kernel with SIDEARM and BED coprocessors (PDF link), which didn't go as far as the Vista requirements and after 17 years of development effort was a commercial failure to boot). Just to make this point clear, the level of security that Vista is trying to achieve to protect video and audio is more extreme than anything the US government has ever considered necessary for protecting its most sensitive classified data.

In addition to the CPU costs, the desire to render data inaccessible at any level means that video decompression can't be done in the CPU any more, since there isn't sufficient CPU power available to both decompress the video and encrypt the resulting uncompressed data stream to the video card. As a result, much of the decompression has to be integrated into the graphics chip. At a minimum this includes IDCT, MPEG motion compensation, and the Windows Media VC-1 codec (which is also DCT-based, so support via an IDCT core is fairly easy). As a corollary to the Increased Hardware Costs problem above, this means that you can't ship a low-end graphics chip without video codec support any more.

The inability to perform decoding in software also means that any premium-content compression scheme not supported by the graphics hardware can't be implemented. If things like the Ogg video codec ever eventuate and get used for premium content, they had better be done using something like Windows Media VC-1 or they'll be a non-starter under Vista or Vista-approved hardware. This is particularly troubling for the high-quality digital cinema (D-Cinema) specification, which uses Motion JPEG2000 (MJ2K) because standard MPEG and equivalents don't provide sufficient image quality. Since JPEG2000 uses wavelet-based compression rather than MPEG's DCT-based compression, and wavelet-based compression isn't on the hardware codec list, it's not possible to play back D-Cinema premium content (the moribund Ogg Tarkin codec also used wavelet-based compression). Because all D-Cinema content will (presumably) be premium content, the result is no playback at all until the hardware support appears in PCs at some indeterminate point in the future. Compare this to the situation with MPEG video, where early software codecs like the XingMPEG en/decoder practically created the market for PC video. Today, thanks to Vista's content protection, the opening up of new markets in this manner would be impossible.

This extra overhead carries a heavy cost for the typical user. It's not uncommon to find PCs so infested with malware (spyware, viruses, trojans, bots, and so on) that they can barely perform their normal tasks, let alone handle the overhead of content protection (depending on whose surveys you believe, the typical Internet-connected PC averages 20-30 pieces of malware). Despite the fact that, on paper, they may have plenty of system resources to throw around for content protection, in practice the overhead of hosting an entire zoo of malware means that any added overhead due to content protection renders them more or less unusable for content playback (while users don't seem to mind waiting around for their botnet-hosting PC to open a Word document, they'll be less happy when it drops frames or produces stuttering audio output).

Looking at this from the point of view of the high-end rather than the average user, the problem is rather different. The high-end graphics and audio market are dominated entirely by gamers, who will do anything to gain the tiniest bit of extra performance, like buying Bigfoot Networks' $250 “Killer NIC” ethernet card in the hope that it'll help reduce their network latency by a few milliseconds. These are people buying $500-$1000 graphics and sound cards for which one single sale brings the device vendors more than the few cents they get from the video/audio portion of an entire roomful of integrated-graphics-and-sound PCs. I wonder how this market segment will react to knowing that their top-of-the-line hardware is being hamstrung by all of the content-protection “features” that Vista hogties it with?

Quote
February 12, 2007
DRM in Windows Vista
Windows Vista includes an array of "features" that you don't want. These features will make your computer less reliable and less secure. They'll make your computer less stable and run slower. They will cause technical support problems. They may even require you to upgrade some of your peripheral hardware and existing software. And these features won't do anything useful. In fact, they're working against you. They're digital rights management (DRM) features built into Vista at the behest of the entertainment industry.

And you don't get to refuse them.

The details are pretty geeky, but basically Microsoft has reworked a lot of the core operating system to add copy protection technology for new media formats like HD DVD and Blu-ray disks. Certain high-quality output paths -- audio and video -- are reserved for protected peripheral devices. Sometimes output quality is artificially degraded; sometimes output is prevented entirely. And Vista continuously spends CPU time monitoring itself, trying to figure out if you're doing something that it thinks you shouldn't. If it does, it limits functionality and in extreme cases restarts just the video subsystem. We still don't know the exact details of all this, and how far-reaching it is, but it doesn't look good.

Microsoft put all those functionality-crippling features into Vista because it wants to own the entertainment industry. This isn't how Microsoft spins it, of course. It maintains that it has no choice, that it's Hollywood that is demanding DRM in Windows in order to allow "premium content" -- meaning, new movies that are still earning revenue -- onto your computer. If Microsoft didn't play along, it'd be relegated to second-class status as Hollywood pulled its support for the platform.

It's all complete nonsense. Microsoft could have easily told the entertainment industry that it was not going to deliberately cripple its operating system, take it or leave it. With 95% of the operating system market, where else would Hollywood go? Sure, Big Media has been pushing DRM, but recently some -- Sony after their 2005 debacle and now EMI Group -- are having second thoughts.

What the entertainment companies are finally realizing is that DRM doesn't work, and just annoys their customers. Like every other DRM system ever invented, Microsoft's won't keep the professional pirates from making copies of whatever they want. The DRM security in Vista was broken the day it was released. Sure, Microsoft will patch it, but the patched system will get broken as well. It's an arms race, and the defenders can't possibly win.

I believe that Microsoft knows this and also knows that it doesn't matter. This isn't about stopping pirates and the small percentage of people who download free movies from the Internet. This isn't even about Microsoft satisfying its Hollywood customers at the expense of those of us paying for the privilege of using Vista. This is about the overwhelming majority of honest users and who owns the distribution channels to them. And while it may have started as a partnership, in the end Microsoft is going to end up locking the movie companies into selling content in its proprietary formats.

We saw this trick before; Apple pulled it on the recording industry. First iTunes worked in partnership with the major record labels to distribute content, but soon Warner Music's CEO Edgar Bronfman Jr. found that he wasn't able to dictate a pricing model to Steve Jobs. The same thing will happen here; after Vista is firmly entrenched in the marketplace, Sony's Howard Stringer won't be able to dictate pricing or terms to Bill Gates. This is a war for 21st-century movie distribution and, when the dust settles, Hollywood won't know what hit them.

To be fair, just last week Steve Jobs publicly came out against DRM for music. It's a reasonable business position, now that Apple controls the online music distribution market. But Jobs never mentioned movies, and he is the largest single shareholder in Disney. Talk is cheap. The real question is would he actually allow iTunes Music Store purchases to play on Microsoft or Sony players, or is this just a clever way of deflecting blame to the -- already hated -- music labels.

Microsoft is reaching for a much bigger prize than Apple: not just Hollywood, but also peripheral hardware vendors. Vista's DRM will require driver developers to comply with all kinds of rules and be certified; otherwise, they won't work. And Microsoft talks about expanding this to independent software vendors as well. It's another war for control of the computer market.

Unfortunately, we users are caught in the crossfire. We are not only stuck with DRM systems that interfere with our legitimate fair-use rights for the content we buy, we're stuck with DRM systems that interfere with all of our computer use -- even the uses that have nothing to do with copyright.

I don't see the market righting this wrong, because Microsoft's monopoly position gives it much more power than we consumers can hope to have. It might not be as obvious as Microsoft using its operating system monopoly to kill Netscape and own the browser market, but it's really no different. Microsoft's entertainment market grab might further entrench its monopoly position, but it will cause serious damage to both the computer and entertainment industries. DRM is bad, both for consumers and for the entertainment industry: something the entertainment industry is just starting to realize, but Microsoft is still fighting. Some researchers think that this is the final straw that will drive Windows users to the competition, but I think the courts are necessary.

In the meantime, the only advice I can offer you is to not upgrade to Vista. It will be hard. Microsoft's bundling deals with computer manufacturers mean that it will be increasingly hard not to get the new operating system with new computers. And Microsoft has some pretty deep pockets and can wait us all out if it wants to. Yes, some people will shift to Macintosh and some fewer number to Linux, but most of us are stuck on Windows. Still, if enough customers say no to Vista, the company might actually listen.

This essay originally appeared on Forbes.com.

EDITED TO ADD (2/23): Some commentary.

Posted on February 12, 2007 at 10:37 AM • 230 Comments • 12 Blog Reactions
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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2008, 08:43:31 AM »

Personally I am using Vista and absolutely love it. The cache system really makes my computer fly and I absolutely love the start bar search button. I could never go back to XP.
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2008, 03:29:37 PM »

I am rebuilding my current computer now and I will be using windows vista 64 bit on it. I will let you know in a couple of weeks what I think of it.  I did use the Beta version when it was out and had only minor problems with it.

Roco    Can you get a OEM version over there? I got my copy from Newegg for  $179.99 USD [ I do think that it is still a high price for just a OS ], Windows Vista 64-Bit Ultimate for System Builders Single Pack DVD.   It only give you the install disk, none of the other useless stuff that you will never use anyway.
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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2008, 04:53:51 PM »

   It only give you the install disk, none of the other useless stuff that you will never use anyway.
You don't mean losing the card games?  cry So what all would be missing?
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2008, 05:03:08 PM »

You don't mean losing the card games?  cry So what all would be missing?




It be so long since I brought a retail version I can't remember what you get  :haha:. Most of it is stuff to read  about the OS and some instruction on how to install the OS.


 Fixed ur quote ; )
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2008, 07:16:23 PM »

 I have yet to see any reason to switch to vista? If its the eye candy, that can be done for free.

 Microsoft and vista just dont want you messing with vista, try to edit vista boot.ini file, can not tweak out the connection in vista. Vista was no wear ready for prime time. I really think vista will turn into a "Windows Me" type release,

 Microsoft really droped the ball with vista, People are turning back to xp in a big way. Most average users don't have or don't need a monster computer to run vista with all the bells and whistles.

 I did see a huge grass root type movement to keep xp on the market. Last I saw 100 thousand people signed a online petition to keep xp sales and support til the next release of windows.

 Bottome line, vista 400 bucks and a pretty powerful computer. Xp Pro, 130.000 bucks, and Will run fine on older computers.
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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2008, 07:44:53 PM »

Like I said early  I just brought Vista 64-bit Ultimate OEM version for $179.99  at Newegg last Friday.  It's down to $169.99 this week. The retail version is only $289.99 not $400.00 and that is for Vista  Ultimate


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116215  [OEM version ]
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116473 [ Retail version ]
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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2008, 08:59:28 PM »

we have 3 laptops and 3 desktops... all of which have vista except for my sisters laptop... my desktop has x64, my laptop has x86 and my dad has x64... x86  is in (32 bit) the rest... we have had absolutly no problems with vista and since the SP1 came out it works even better... my sister has one of them new mac laptops and it sucks.. so many errors and stuff i have had to reformat her computer about 3 times already.... i love vista! there arent any problems if you have a good computer like CA3LE said...
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« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2008, 06:04:06 AM »

Like I said early  I just brought Vista 64-bit Ultimate OEM version for $179.99  at Newegg last Friday.  It's down to $169.99 this week. The retail version is only $289.99 not $400.00 and that is for Vista  Ultimate


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116215  [OEM version ]
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116473 [ Retail version ]


  Oops, I stand corrected. Had no idea vista had come down so much.  Still not enough of a reason to switch. IMHO vista is the stepping stone to the next microsoft release. I am almost sure microsoft is hearing and seeing all the complaints about vista, lets just hope they fix thoes issues in the next release. If not, xp works fine and people will just continue to use it, and if it can no longer be purchased, then they will just hit the torrent sites and get it.

 One thing I REALLY hate about vista is the updates. You really have no choice what you update and what you don't. It just downloads them all without much of a explanation. Unless I am wrong about that to??
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« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2008, 07:24:19 AM »

If you only want Vista Home Premium 64-bit OEM its only $99.00. 32 bit is the same price

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116204
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« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2008, 08:56:14 AM »

If you only want Vista Home Premium 64-bit OEM its only $99.00. 32 bit is the same price

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116204
if i got vista i'd go with this though most likely...home premium seems good enough.
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« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2008, 10:39:33 AM »

Actually everything you have said about apple is totally untrue. The have brainwashed no one. They have only speaked the truth.

I would suggest you go really use a mac with leopard. Vista is a complete pain in the ass. Its a total failure, and even Microsoft knows it, and is finally start to admit it, with ballmer saying vista is a work in progress.

And apple wasn't even the one to start the vista bashing, PC mag did with there first review of it. And everything apple has said up to this point is true. Even when they said that mac's run vista better.

Vista anyway you cut it is still a mess, its DLL hell, its a registry nightmare. The file system is a F#@&en joke. All of the features are stolen from OS X in one way or another. Its over priced. Its god offal slow. Even on a 8 core mac pro with 8GB of ram, its still F#@&en slow. Oh and its way too expensive.

Windows activation is a joke and another pain in the ass. There is no activation, or even a CD-Key with OS X why because its priced right and fairly, so people don't steal it.

Some Copied Features

Vista instant search: Well thats just a copy of spotlight from OS X but not a very good copy because since they don't have a journaled file system is quite slow.

Vista RSS Reader: Is an exact copy of the Safari RSS reader, they even copied the design.

UAC: is a poor and very annoying attempt at copying OS X security methods.

Vista Gadgets: Well thats just Widgets, from apple and yahoo. All they did was change 2 letters in the name.

Windows Calendar: Thats iCal, I won't go too deep into it because they copied everything from it, its basically an exact copy.

Windows Mail: Again an almost exact copy of Mail on OS X

Vista's Photo Thing: (can't remember what its called) What a surprise its a clone of iPhoto

And I could keep going. Microsoft say's all these things are there great innovations. But what they forget to tell people is they are actually apples innovations not theirs.

Another problem, and big complaint with that many people have with vista is, things just work like S#!t, or don't work at all. There is no integration between apps like there should be. Getting hardware devices to work on vista can be a huge hassle many times. I can't even count how many times I have had to go and get hardware devices working on peoples computers because they couldn't get it to work with vista.

On OS X it couldn't be simpler. Just plug it in. If it needs drivers it will find them for you through software update. My wireless mouse needs drivers for vista to control the extra 6 buttons on it, but on my mac I just plug in the receiver go to my mouse control settings, and configure what I want the buttons to do.

On vista its a bitch to uninstall anything, Ive had to click through UAC 5 times before to uninstall 1 program. And it took about 20 minutes for it to remove the program. On a mac just drag the app to the trash can and you just uninstalled the program.

To install a program on vista you have to run through the whole installer crap. If you have UAC on you have to click through that thing. On OS X you just download the DMG for the program, double click it, and drag the app to your apps folder. Its installed.

The vista UI is another stupid thing they did. Its written really bad because it puts the biggest performance hit on the computer. And its not very good looking. They should have done a much more cleaner look that performers really well like the UI that Suse 11 is doing.

Its a lot of little things, that make people hate vista, from the huge price, to the performance hit you take with it, even if you have 4GB of ram. To all the stupid little things in the OS you have to put up with. And sure you can turn UAC off, but then you are back to a XP level of security. And the whole point of vista was to not be another XP in the security department.

Ok i think I have written enough for now.  :haha: Ok now lets see your anti apple responses.
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« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2008, 12:28:34 PM »

wow 2 hours and no response??...where's ur spunk guys Smile so far i like vista...it's okay...just different...need to get used to it before i'll trust it...but that's probably cuz i just lost everything on my other hd Sad maybe not permanently...i'm letting it rest...and heal before we mess with it Smile
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« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2008, 12:59:53 PM »

 There can be no truly honest rebuttal because everything he said is entirely true! 
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« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2008, 01:02:55 PM »

One thing I REALLY hate about vista is the updates. You really have no choice what you update and what you don't. It just downloads them all without much of a explanation. Unless I am wrong about that to??
Go here  Control Panel\System and Maintenance\Windows Update\Change settings select Never if you don't want to be bothered or one of the other settings depending on what you want.
dlewis23 covered a lot of it I have Vista & agree with him.
I could go into how to disable the UAC as well as possible & the TAKEOWN  & icacls /grant so you can control most of the files. But you can get into trouble if you do it wrong.I still had 5 files I have never been able to access even after that.Two of those I shred regularly with a linux boot disc.That at least temporarily zero's them.
The SVI folder was like that but I found a way to get it to stay zero also.
All this helped but Vista is still slow.
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« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2008, 01:11:58 PM »

 here it is, as Dlewis stated, many of the apps are copies from apple, a UNIX system, so they run smooth, w/ all the crap windows has tying up resources, how could you expect anything less then a traffic jam or threads at the cpu level.
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« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2008, 05:37:03 AM »

Well, I haven't used OSX extensively yet so my optinion is a little partial.  All I know is that I've been using Vista for a long while now and I LOVE it, compared to XP it kicks ass.  Run beautifully smooth for me, media center is kick ass on my livingroom PC but I guess that comes with some versions of XP... but I didn't know about that until after I started using Vista Ultimate.

For S#!ts and giggles I'm going to install Linux on my livingroom PC to give it a try, I'll be starting another thread to ask the community what Linux build they reccommend as of right now.  I've only really used Linux on my servers so I use RHE.  The last time I installed Linux on a home box was years ago and I know that there HAS to be some pretty sick ass builds out there for home use that I'm unaware of.

I love the discussion in this thread, thanks to all that are participating... very good feedback and a very nice debate.  You all seem to have a very strong opinion and seem to have done your homework.  Thanks again, and keep up the debate, very nice read indeed.... wow that rhymes!  Razz
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« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2008, 07:49:51 AM »

Well you should give a mac a try. Especially as someone who manages and makes websites, I bet you would switch.

The tools for doing that are a night and day difference on the mac side vs. the windows side. Since OS X has a terminal built in, no more putty for SSH. I know you hate that POS. :haha: You use transmit for sftp, and ftp which is by far the best FTP program around hands down, no smartftp, or what ever god offal one use use.

And since I know you code in just notepad ( I still don't get how the hell you can do that with out F#@&ing everything up, especially with css)  :haha: there is textmate on the mac, Which does the best layout of code Ive ever seen. It even tells you when you made a mistake. Which can be a big help, especially when PHP errors are off  :haha:
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« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2008, 07:52:00 AM »


And since I know you code in just notepad ( I still don't get how the hell you can do that with out F#@&ing everything up, especially with css)  :haha: there is textmate on the mac, Which does the best layout of code Ive ever seen. It even tells you when you made a mistake. Which can be a big help, especially when PHP errors are off  :haha:
What??????  Codes in notepad?  Shocked Shocked How the hell do you keep all that S#!t in your head!!!!!!!!!!! OMFG!!!!!! Shocked
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« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2008, 07:55:35 AM »

What??????  Codes in notepad?  Shocked Shocked How the hell do you keep all that S#!t in your head!!!!!!!!!!! OMFG!!!!!! Shocked

IDK my self, I have wondering how the hell he does it myself. I know I can't do it. Once I start having to scroll I get lost. The all black text, and that weird font notepad uses drives me nuts, even when I tried it with a simple edit I couldn't do it  :haha:
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« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2008, 11:01:22 AM »

thats why CA3LE's a badass.   Wink
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« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2008, 12:29:38 PM »

People hate change... D just flat out hates it... not sure why, I think it goes back to his unhealthy attachment to breasts. One night I had been at his house living room wrastlin (dont ask, not as gay as it sounds) and I woke up from my exhausted stupor and he was trying to breast feed on me... anywho... the boys not right.
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« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2008, 12:34:36 PM »

People hate change... D just flat out hates it... not sure why, I think it goes back to his unhealthy attachment to breasts. One night I had been at his house living room wrastlin (dont ask, not as gay as it sounds) and I woke up from my exhausted stupor and he was trying to breast feed on me... anywho... the boys not right.

aww did someone not get any this morning....

I'm all up for change. its a good thing, when done right. These changes they made are piss poor changes that don't work. I could have laid on my bed, twitted my thumbs and came up with better features then Microsoft did.

If they want to make a good change how about you get rid of the registry. That would be the best thing they could ever do.
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« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2008, 12:44:10 PM »

aww did someone not get any this morning....

I'm all up for change. its a good thing, when done right. These changes they made are piss poor changes that don't work. I could have laid on my bed, twitted my thumbs and came up with better features then Microsoft did.

If they want to make a good change how about you get rid of the registry. That would be the best thing they could ever do.
I like Vista so far. But I do little on it. Basic stuff. Its no "new" OS thats for sure. Feels more like what XP should have felt like. On a similar note I cant WAIT for FF3 to come out.
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« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2008, 02:40:16 PM »

 I still wonder why apple, now that they have switched to a pentium chip does not make a run at the pc?  Darn mac's are just so expensive compared to a pc.

 It will be intresting to see what microsoft steals from apple and lynix for there next release.
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« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2008, 03:15:38 PM »

I still wonder why apple, now that they have switched to a pentium chip does not make a run at the pc?  Darn mac's are just so expensive compared to a pc.

 It will be intresting to see what microsoft steals from apple and lynix for there next release.

They are not more expensive a good amount of the time. When you factor in many things, They end up being cheaper many times. 

Take for example the gateway one, Dell XPS one vs the iMac. The gateway and dell have lower specs, then the iMac, but cost more.

And also they are faster, even when running vista http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/reviews/4258725.html?page=1
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« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2008, 03:35:09 PM »

I still wonder why apple, now that they have switched to a pentium chip does not make a run at the pc?  Darn mac's are just so expensive compared to a pc.

 It will be intresting to see what microsoft steals from apple and lynix for there next release.
eh umm......  remember ? unix?    most of the software is created by users? member ? Apple steals from who?  2funny 2funny
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« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2008, 05:48:15 PM »

eh umm......  remember ? unix?    most of the software is created by users? member ? Apple steals from who?  2funny 2funny

 No idea on unix. You could be right? All I know most of what is in vista can be found in either lynix or the mac. If microsoft wants to release something, try something no one else does or uses. Try something cutting edge. Vista imho just took 2 steps back. Trying to keep anyone from tweaking it they way they want. I guess no mater what is tried, either the mac or lynix already beat microsoft to the punch.
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« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2008, 06:15:08 PM »

No idea on unix. You could be right? All I know most of what is in vista can be found in either lynix or the mac. If microsoft wants to release something, try something no one else does or uses. Try something cutting edge. Vista imho just took 2 steps back. Trying to keep anyone from tweaking it they way they want. I guess no mater what is tried, either the mac or lynix already beat microsoft to the punch.
Ahh, gotcha. Just for clarification, it's  " Linux " pronounced  Lee - nucks . Per xaviar himself, the creator of Linux.  And Leopard has been based on the Unix core for quite some time, if not always, I'll have to look that one up.
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« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2008, 06:59:13 PM »

Try something cutting edge. Vista imho just took 2 steps back. Trying to keep anyone from tweaking it they way they want.

Thats going to happen. As you get more advanced, there is going to be less tweaking that you can do. The only reason you can tweak windows is because of the registry. Once that is gone, (with in the next 2 releases) there will be no to very little tweaking.

Ahh, gotcha. Just for clarification, it's  " Linux " pronounced  Lee - nucks . Per xaviar himself, the creator of Linux.  And Leopard has been based on the Unix core for quite some time, if not always, I'll have to look that one up.

OS X has used a base of BSD Unix up till 10.5. Leopard uses more of the true unix environment.

But if you go back, OS X is actually 15 years old. A good amount of the stuff we see today is from a company called NeXT PC that jobs started after he was fired from apple. Just about everything we see today with a apple logo on it, is from jobs head, and designed by basically one guy. If you look around for videos of NeXTSTEP you can what OS X looked like before jobs brought it too apple.
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« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2008, 07:17:45 PM »

Thanks for the info dlewis.  You seem to have a good understanding of where OS technology has been as well as where it's going.
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« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2008, 06:55:47 PM »

With the "pillars" in mind, I decided to take a look at the 11 reasons why Vista remains on shaky ground:

1)Market confusion. From the beginning, everyone moaned about the fact that there were simply too many versions of the OS for sale. Who needs all the variations? It's stupid—plain and simple. What you want is the one best version, not a slew of namby-pamby ones. This happened because the folks at Microsoft know only how to merchandise and, seemingly, not how to market.

2)Code size. I've got two words for you: TOO BIG. Enough said.

3)Missing components. Yes, WinFS, the promised file system and a core pillar of Vista, isn't there. The promises regarding the development of this file system go back to 1991. And Microsoft cannot make it a reality? Why?


4)Laptop battery-life drain. This was supposed to be fixed with special code and hybrid hard disks (HHD). Still, users have to resort to expensive silicon drives.

5)HHD fiasco. I'm still irked about being told by the HD industry that the benefits of the new generation of hard drives will "make people flock to Vista." That was over two years ago, and suddenly there's silence about the whole thing. One of these days, someone will tell me what really happened. My guess: It never worked correctly, and no one could make it work.

6)Bogus Vista-capable stickers. Microsoft's "Windows Vista capable" campaign was an incredible marketing botch. Computers were sold with an indication that they were "Windows Vista capable" when they were not. This did wonders for goodwill.

7)Missing drivers. It seems incredible that all of the Windows drivers that worked with XP did not necessarily work with Vista. How does that happen?

8)Conflicting advice. There was no consistent advice for users about implementation, and Microsoft did nothing to help. Some people said that you should get a new computer only with Vista preloaded and not upgrade. Others said upgrades were fine. Others upgraded and complained. Microsoft should have put up a specialized Web site that could test machines remotely and tell users whether it would be a good idea—or not—to upgrade. A promotional/test CD-ROM that could boot Vista (like those Knoppix Linux disks) would have been a good idea, too.

9)XP mania. You'd think that the world was in love with Windows XP. Everyone wants to keep it on the market, and this makes Vista look even worse. What's more, there were far too many reports about people reverting to XP after an "experience" with Vista. If Microsoft had the testing service that I mention above in place, this would never have happened.

10)Mediocre rollout. Unlike other rollouts of important Windows products, Microsoft did not put on much of a show with Vista. While there were some weird posters placed in subways and maybe a few TV commercials, none of it compared with the rollouts from a few years back, where the company got worldwide attention. By comparison, the company seemed almost sheepish or embarrassed by Vista, something that was also reflected in the recent lackluster rollout of Server 2008—a total snooze. This sent the wrong signals to users and may have made them hypercritical.

11)Performance. You're not supposed to deliver a new operating system that's been in development for more than four years yet performs worse than the previous OS. Performance should be at the top, not the bottom, of the to-do list. You get the sense that Microsoft just piles code on top of code and somewhere in the middle of it all is MS-DOS 1.0.

I could probably put another dozen items on this list. The point is that it's a big list already. With all the resources in the world at Microsoft's disposal, you have to wonder why the company cannot get everything right even once.



  http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2286065,00.asp
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